From: Mike Robinson ------------------------------------------------------ You bring up several interesting points, answered inline: >> "The perfect currency unit" today is probably "the ACH wire-transfer = data packet."=20 >=20 > Oh dude.. you opened up a BIG can of worms. ACH is not the same as a = Wire although they are similar.=20 > They are fairly well controlled "file formats" [...] > You are talking about a transport method, a file format, a set of = rules for transferring the government issued and controlled currency we = commonly call a "dollar".=20 My point was that the ACH and wire-transfer systems are ... systems, = supposedly "secure" ... by which "Money" (strictly by-agreement) can be = transferred in real time from one place to another. Any "government = issued and controlled currency" can be transferred in this way, and such = transfers are accepted by all concerned ... without the need for = lugging-about gold bricks or printed paper. > Bitcoins have value because people agree that they do. Dollars have a = value set by the government AND various entities (other governments for = example) AND the general population reaching a consensus.=20 "Only" because people (currently) agree that they do. If someone stole = your Dollars, and you could catch them, then you could put them in jail = and make them give you your Dollars back. Bitcoins, on the other hand, = are "barter trade units" in the eyes of the law: "someone stole your = file." > Gold has intrinsic value, Bullets have a more easily used by common = people (that own guns) intrinsic value. A gallon of potable water has = intrinsic value.. Food has intrinsic value.=20 All of these things have "intrinsic value" only to the extent that they = are desirable. Gold has been capturing the human imagination for = millennia because it is pretty, malleable, and rare. (It has a = different sort of "intrinsic value" to an electrical engineer.) A = gallon of water is priceless in the Sahara; or about 80=A2 at the Golden = Gallon. Food is priceless to a starving-man, or on the dollar-menu at = Wendy's. (Maybe. Heh...) =20 > Dollars and bitcoins, litecoins, and other "non-anchored" currencies = have values that we, as a society mostly agree on. >=20 The =3Didea=3D =3Dof=3D a "Dollar" has value. The number in your = bank-account "has value" because, well, "because you can spend it." = Likewise the plastic cards in your wallet. Furthermore, if someone = misappropriates your account, or your wallet, you have legal recourse. = Your deposits are guaranteed up to a quarter-million dollars ... and it = does not make the slightest bit of difference to you where those = replacement Dollars came from. > They are easily exchanged and transported.=20 More specifically, they are "fungible." "Able to replace or be replaced = by another identical item; mutually interchangeable." They can be, by = agreement, "transported" (and "exchanged") by computer. They are also = =3Dliquid.=3D We will never run out of, say, Dollars. We will increase = the supply as necessary to ensure that anyone who wants to settle a = transaction using Dollars has, by definition, access to sufficient = Dollars to do so (if he is entitled to possess them, and sometimes even = if he's not). If there was even the slightest hint that this were not = so, we would instantly have "a run on the banks." > If Bitcoin reaches critical mass for larger transactions it will = change international commerce in interesting way.=20 Bitcoin is fundamentally based on the idea of "artificial scarcity." = They are "gold nuggets hidden in a vast quantity of dirt." They are = perceived as valuable to you because they are hard to get, and because = they are perceived as "things," that is to say, "unique." A dollar, on = other hand, is not unique at all. You don't get them by digging a hole = in the ground. (Most of us get them by writing computer programs; some = do it by selling food and water at Wendy's.) But it is their very = "scarcity" that makes them unusable as "a medium of exchange." "Money" doesn't have "value." "Money" is a medium of exchange; nothing = more or less. The "scam" issue arises from, not any technical fault of bitcoin per-se, = but rather of human nature: "money for nothing." People can be and are = persuaded to pay $5,000 USD for, literally, "a money-making machine." = The system is based on "trust," basically in the complexity of a = computer algorithm and on "one another" (most of whom are people you = have never met and never will), yet it lacks recourse. Thus, the = perception that "this IS a nugget of gold" can be fostered, and, having = thus been fostered, it can and therefore will be abused. The one = sure-fire way to turn a bitcoin into a fungible unit of currency is to = build and to sell a money-machine for $5,000. (I don't see them saying = that you can pay for 'em in bitcoin.) I have, personally, stood in the "sanctum sanctum" of a working gold = mine: the final step, in which a thin stream of gold is clinging to a = certain spot on the shaker-table and this stream is carefully scooped = up. (Other heavy-metals are basically discarded.) There is a GLEAM in = the eyes of the people who work for that mine when they stand in that = room. You know not to take one step closer to that table; not to make = the slightest move. They're nice gentlemen and you've been with them = all day, but ... but ... but. "Gold Fever." It is real, and it is an = inextricable -- and exploitable -- part of our human nature.
From: Benjamin Stewart ------------------------------------------------------ We just replaced about 15 of these that had been in service for 15+ years. Old? Yes. Solid? Yes. They even tolerate environments with lots of metal-grinding dust in the air while never being cleaned! On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 8:08 AM, Bret McHone wrote: > To avoid thread hijacking I started a new one.. > > Just as a heads up to anyone interested on the list, I have about 10 > currently (and getting a lot more) old Baystack 450 switches. 24-port > managed 10/100 switches. I've been selling them for $20 a piece with > cascade module and cables. Some even have the 10/100/1000 Mbps fiber module > in them if anyone is interested. I may be willing to trade for beer or ammo > :) > > These are only L2 switches, but they are solid. They are configured > through the menu so they are pretty easy to setup. > > Thanks, > Bret > > On Jul 23, 2013, at 7:25 AM, Mike Harrison wrote: > > > On Mon, 22 Jul 2013, Dave Brockman wrote: > >> On 7/22/2013 3:39 PM, Mike Harrison wrote: > >>> I have a 24 port 3com SuperStack II 10/100 switch you can have, > >>> free. > > > >> I'll donate the shell(s) to put that thing out of its misery :) > > > > Sounds like a Chugalug Range Day: Geeks, Guns and Gear.. > > > > And like Dave said: It's junk gear, but it works and it's free.. > > > > In fear of sounding like Aaron, I need a clean out the garage/office > junk sale day.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
From: Bret McHone ------------------------------------------------------ To avoid thread hijacking I started a new one.. Just as a heads up to anyone interested on the list, I have about 10 currently (and getting a lot more) old Baystack 450 switches. 24-port managed 10/100 switches. I've been selling them for $20 a piece with cascade module and cables. Some even have the 10/100/1000 Mbps fiber module in them if anyone is interested. I may be willing to trade for beer or ammo :) These are only L2 switches, but they are solid. They are configured through the menu so they are pretty easy to setup. Thanks, Bret On Jul 23, 2013, at 7:25 AM, Mike Harrison wrote: > On Mon, 22 Jul 2013, Dave Brockman wrote: >> On 7/22/2013 3:39 PM, Mike Harrison wrote: >>> I have a 24 port 3com SuperStack II 10/100 switch you can have, >>> free. > >> I'll donate the shell(s) to put that thing out of its misery :) > > Sounds like a Chugalug Range Day: Geeks, Guns and Gear.. > > And like Dave said: It's junk gear, but it works and it's free.. > > In fear of sounding like Aaron, I need a clean out the garage/office junk sale day.. > > > > > > >