ot: phosophrus was Richard Stallman and open source

From: Rod-Lists 
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I know several activists that are teaching soil building and composting.
The problem is we had a population explosion since the misnamed "green revolution" which brought about global scale use of synthetic fertilizer.
And Phosphorus in synthetic fertilizer is mined from a few locations and therefore finite.
7 Billion and growing would not be possible on just horse and green manure.

----- Bret McHone  wrote:
> I won't say much as a direct rebuttal to that one to avoid taking this any farther off topic. What I will say is that I do not agree with that since crop rotation and composting does a great job of putting nutrients back in the soil. Though I whole-heartedly admit this article is probably referring to large-scale commercial farming which I have no experience with or information about. I have a small farm and have only recently really started gardening/farming on any scale. Originally it was just for horses but it has expanded a bit. 
> 
> 
> -B
> 
> 
> On Dec 14, 2012, at 11:54 AM, Rod-Lists wrote:
> > 
> > A lot of people from all across the ideological spectrum think 7 billion people is too much.
> > But that is about to take care of itself.
> > http://www.businessinsider.com/peak-phosphorus-and-food-production-2012-12
> > 

=============================================================== From: rdflowers ------------------------------------------------------ Did we just recently explode from 1.5 Billion to 7 billion, just because of the so-called "green" revolution? no. So, when that misguided "solution" doesn't scale, will we go back to 1.5 Billion through starvation? no. Can we go back to anywhere near that through starvation however caused? no. we will not die-back more than a guesstimated 1/2 billion before our dear idiot species will go absolutely ape-shit. Planetary Mogadishu/Baghdad will make a very large die-back at that point. There would be no situation or place of safety Planet-wide. Think about what you know about our species. ----- Message from rod-lists@epbfi.com --------- Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 11:15:27 -0500 (EST) From: Rod-Lists Reply-To: Chattanooga Unix Gnu Android Linux Users Group Subject: [Chugalug] ot: phosophrus was Re: Richard Stallman and open source To: Chattanooga Unix Gnu Android Linux Users Group

=============================================================== From: Bret McHone ------------------------------------------------------ I don't care about the 7 billion, just the few dozen in my family I care about and we know how to take care of ourselves. ;) The thing is there are lots of ways to add fertility to the soil like cover crops after harvest, field and crop rotation, burning, composting, etc... I generally go to farmers markets whenever I need something that's currently in season and ran into a fellow who was happy to give me a few pointers. He told me that he had very poor soil and couldn't grow much because of the heavy clay content but he had a couple seasons in one field where he just planted winter rye, used a flail mower to chop it up and tilled it into the soil and now his soil is awesome. He had the beautiful plants to back it up. He went on to tell me theories on organic gardening which was pretty fascinating. I think phosphorus shortages may change the way things are done and may reduce the scale at which commercial farming can be done as we know it, but I don't think it will cause global starvation. Necessity becomes the mother of invention and I have faith in mankind finding a way. Though I'm definitely not saying it would not have an impact on food supplies, I just don't think it will be at the scale they say. -B

=============================================================== From: rdflowers ------------------------------------------------------ ----- Message from dbmchone@gmail.com --------- Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 14:13:04 -0500 From: Bret McHone Reply-To: Chattanooga Unix Gnu Android Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Chugalug] ot: phosophrus was Re: Richard Stallman and open source To: Chattanooga Unix Gnu Android Linux Users Group (1) Ghoulish, and (2) a "survivalist" wet dream . Protect them from a biota gone mad, toxic air, water, and soil, and new designer and viral plagues ? Right! Beat that chest. You and I agree on that. I also say that substantial quiet starvation is not going to happen with technological humans -- we will attack one another with all our chemical and biological might ( and possibly atomic, but it needs some technology and organization to deploy ). Our complex civilization, when substantially disrupted, will not adjust gracefully. ----- End message from dbmchone@gmail.com ----- -- R. D. Flowers, Chattanooga, TN, USA http://chalice.us/poe/

=============================================================== From: Bret McHone ------------------------------------------------------ That first part was meant to be as much a joke as anything. I would never like to see anyone lose their life... and with the exception of my immediate family (me, my wife and children) my family is very overweight and lazy. If I were a survivalist they would be considered more of a liability for survival... I am not a survivalist. I do enjoy watching that show doomsday preppers, but as much for the comedy and process some of those people go through. One of them was a teenager that about caught a house on fire and admitting to stealing. He also thought a single small cupboard of canned goods were enough to sustain him for a year... yeah... they have filmed some real winners. -B

=============================================================== From: rdflowers ------------------------------------------------------ Over and over I interpret someone as sincere who is just distracting. Sorry. ----- Message from dbmchone@gmail.com --------- Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 19:47:43 -0500 From: Bret McHone Reply-To: Chattanooga Unix Gnu Android Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [Chugalug] ot: phosophrus was Re: Richard Stallman and open source To: Chattanooga Unix Gnu Android Linux Users Group ----- End message from dbmchone@gmail.com ----- -- R. D. Flowers, Chattanooga, TN, USA http://chalice.us/poe/

=============================================================== From: Rod-Lists ------------------------------------------------------ ----- Bret McHone wrote: You should. Those folk won't go quietly into a corner to starve to death. Just look at the disruption our artificial low corn prices cause in Mexico thus forcing the campacinos off the land into the cities then up here because they cannot compete with monsanto which gets subsidies.