CSS/JS/HTML Therapyon http://chugalug.org

From: Mike Harrison 

Yesterday was one of those days where after getting home,
I felt the urge to do -something- productive and gratifying.

I'd been playing with Twitter Boostrap, a collection of CSS
and JavaScript (including jQuery Aaaack!) that is useful for playing 
around with a CMS's (Content Management Systems) and interfaces.

It seems pretty heavy for a 5 page website, but I have to
admit I like the adaptive/responsive menu's for playing with
smart phones, tablets, etc.

So I updated the Widget CMS on http://chugalug.org with it.

Those of you that know me and my affection for table driven layout, hatred 
of jQuery and JavaScipt powered menuing might wonder what aliens injected 
what glowing substance into my head... Rest assured, I'm still me,
but you have to learn/know something well enough to love it,
to honestly hate it.

So, loading all that crap makes the main page:

    		Size	Uncompressed Size
1 Document	2 KB	8 KB
8 Images	33 KB	33 KB
0 Objects
14 Scripts	96 KB	313 KB
3 Style Sheets	24 KB	150 KB
26 Files	154 KB	504 KB

I'm looking for some feedback. Is this "the new normal" and "acceptable"?

To be on topic:

   It's hosted on Linux,
   written with only a text editor (live on the server)
   (joe < vi < emacs )
   and is about the Chugalug website..

Mike Harrison   bogon@geeklabs.com  cell: 423.605.6943

=============================================================== From: Eric Wolf ------------------------------------------------------ The short answer: http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2012/sep/18/9-18-c1-epb-throws-down-the-speed-gauntlet/ Your page is comprised of ~300KB of stuff. At EPBs lowest service (50Mbps) is ~ 1000X faster than a 56Kbps modem. That means your page is the equivalent of a 300 BYTE page going across a 56Kbps modem. -Eric -=--=---=----=----=---=--=-=--=---=----=---=--=-=- Eric B. Wolf 720-334-7734

=============================================================== From: Sean Brewer ------------------------------------------------------ Replace that btn-block with offset5 on that humongous button: http://chugalug.org/widget/about/About.html

=============================================================== From: Bobby Burden ------------------------------------------------------ One note. Looks like you are linking to " http://chugalug.org/cogs/js/jquery.js" and to jquery-latest.js. The former is a 404.

=============================================================== From: Dan Lyke ------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 25 Sep 2012 14:24:26 -0600 Eric Wolf wrote: The long answer: I get 2gig/month with my cell phone plan before my data rate is throttled. I generally only use a couple hundred meg of that plan, but that means that uncompressed Chugalug.org is a 1/4000 of my data plan. Sure, not really enough to get het up about, relative to, say, watching a video when I'm out and about, but I still think about such things. On the other hand, jquery-1.6.1.min.js, which I'm starting to use allover the place, is 90k. So maybe Eric is right. And since today is, for me, about learning new technologies and embracing things I've long struggled against (like JavaScript and AJAX), maybe it is time to say that bandwidth, on the scale of text files, has become free. Dan

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ I spend enough time shelled into systems with so little bandwidth I can watch myself type.. But thanks for the feedback.

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ Thanks, hadn't moved them all over yet and cleaned it up..

=============================================================== From: Dave Brockman ------------------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 My best suggestion would be to compare it to something else you consider "normal" and "acceptable". I have a hard time finding a page that loads in under 200kb these days, but that's just me.... Regards, dtb - -- "Some things in life can never be fully appreciated nor understood unless experienced firsthand. Some things in networking can never be fully understood by someone who neither builds commercial networking equipment nor runs an operational network." RFC 1925 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlBiJwgACgkQABP1RO+tr2R1UACfT5pwO16T59Lbvf9/rp7m9fBw yrcAnRGXB5SZ1Gfh2sezCzHTEHUbrVcl =H9w/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

=============================================================== From: Mike Harrison ------------------------------------------------------ Dave: What I am used to is our core system: "Juice" has a customer info screen that is "huge" with the amount of data it displays. I just pulled one up with a lot of stuff in it. On a dev server with compression turned off (so I can sniff easier): Size Uncompressed Size 1 Document 37 KB 37 KB 8 Images 16 KB 16 KB 0 Objects 3 Scripts 4 KB 4 KB 1 Style Sheet 20 KB 20 KB 13 Files 77 KB 77 KB And most of the images (16kb) is a Logo and stuff that is there because the customer demanded it. A typical screen is < 50kb uncompressed. Javascript and all. These interfaces allow caching of the CSS and JS and Images, and work very well on burst satellite and wireless networks in remote places on crappy old browsers. Actually data transfered with compression on after your first time through a cycle: < 8KB per page. --------------------- But I'm playing.. Trying the new paradigm.. I mean, it looks like this internet thing just might take off.

=============================================================== From: Sean Brewer ------------------------------------------------------ Fingerprint your assets. Don't care too much about how big they are, especially nowadays. They'll only get downloaded once anyway, until you update them again.