[Chugalug] Forum vs Listserv

Mike Harrison cluon at geeklabs.com
Mon Sep 16 16:30:53 UTC 2013


On Mon, 16 Sep 2013, Mike Robinson wrote:
> I want to know what's happening around here, but I can't stand a 
> Listserv much longer.  If it stays, I go.

Been nice knowing you... but I hope you stay.

Chugalug has been active since 1999. It's evolved a little since then,
and will evolve more over time. "Listserv" suck, "WebForums" suck..
both have different reasons they are each superior and inferior.
Those reasons are often different for different people.

I'll admit the recent foray into PGP/GPG and signatures has added noise to 
the list, but it is part of the evolutionary process of both the list and 
the technologies being used. The biggest factor is the people involved and 
their behaviors.

Chugalug has existed for 14+ years under my personal benevolence as an 
experiment in communal anarchy and community as much as it is a "LUG".
Its flavor dates back to the hobbies (and businesses) of several of the 
founding members that ran Bulletin Board Systems (BBS's) including myself.

If the community decries posting PGP/GPG sigs as antisocial behavior,
the more socially aware members MIGHT not post them to the list.
They might, just because they can. I'd like to let the community work that 
out over time.

My personal gripe of top posters that don't trim is a common one
for many of my more e-mail list savvy generation. While I don't like
PGP Signatures that are invasive in the body of the email compared to MIME 
attachments, I understand the tools being used and their reasons. I'd 
rather see a post from Dave or Dan with such "noise" than not have them 
post. I swap back and forth from using PINE and Apple Mail, I usually see 
-everything- in PINE and only the relevant part in Apple Mail. Maybe your 
choice or configuration of e-mail interface is part of the issue?

===Anyway, back on topic:======

A web forum.

0.  I won't host any commonly available web forum (Simple Machines Forum, 
PhpBB, etc.. ) on my personal server. I have in the past and they are so 
full of exploits and management overhead as to be not something I want to 
deal with. Anything with session/cookie based auth is a pain. Once upon 
a time I hacked SMF to use Basic Auth.. worth using.

1.  If anyone wants to set one up and host it and manage it, I'd happily 
point some DNS hostname's to it.. join the fray, explore how it worked 
with the community.

2. My personal experience with Web Forums is the tend to race to the 
bottom. The listserv format is the only barrier to being a member of 
Chugalug, and posting/conversing to 250+ people, it's just enough of a 
technical barrier to be desirable.

3.  Viva la Revolution! If the community organizes a revolt with enough 
long term commitment to be credible, I'll graciously concede. I'm a member 
of some other "LUGS" that die and rebirth every few years, fighting over
control, format, agenda, mission, checkbook, 501c3 status, meeting 
locations...

======Just saw the post about: reddit  http://www.reddit.com/r/chugalug/

Awesome. Works for me.. We could even setup a cross-posting mechanism....
a redirect.. All things are possible.

I've also seen Linked In Forums, IRC chats..  All good. Welcome to 
socially responsible anarchy. This is a "Society of Independant People"
and you can be an active force in it.


















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