[Chugalug] Chugalug Digest, Vol 14, Issue 36

James Nylen jnylen at gmail.com
Fri Sep 6 21:21:58 UTC 2013

Aaron, I'll go you one better than that:

"Our shepherds are tracking our cell phones and reading our emails, *for
our safety*, and forcing us to earn and use play money that we print for
ourselves whenever we need more."

On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Aaron welch <n2nightfall at gmail.com> wrote:

> I really enjoy all the negativity towards BTC on this list.  It means that
> it is important enough for at least a few of you to research so that you
> can argue your points (however misguided they are) against something that a
> few of us have made real money with.  The other side of this is that if the
> general public keeps sharing your opinion and view, then a few people will
> make a killing generating, trading, and using BTC.  I keep reading the same
> logic from people over and over... IT'S NOT REAL MONEY!  That is purely a
> matter of opinion.  What is a big blue diamond really worth in USD?  To me,
> nothing unless I can sell it.  To a rich person who has more money than
> sense, $100 Million or so.  A few years ago, a company in Florida created a
> flawless yellow diamond through a gas deposit process under extreme
> pressure and temps.  Diamond companies from all over the world tried to
> shut them down, threatened them, etc.  The value of objects is PURELY what
> we place upon them.  A pile of gold means nothing to a man on a desert
> island with no food the same as a man who needs a new tractor can't readily
> sell his silo full of corn to pay for it.  Each of you that argues against
> BTC really needs to look at what it represents to the global market as a
> whole.  A completely independent system of commerce and exchange without
> bank, government, or individual control.  This is pretty exciting to me as
> I have been burned by banks pretty bad in the past.  We PAY banks to hold
> OUR MONEY today.  They get to make money for holding onto our cash.  They
> make money creating loans against OUR funds in their accounts.  Governments
> create and spend currency at their leisure without regard for the overall
> value of that currency.  In fact, the US government does not even control
> its own currency, the Federal Reserve does.  I think of BTC as a way to
> gain a little more control of my own destiny back from the vultures.
> -AW
> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 9:52 AM, Stephen Kraus <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>wrote:
>> John, that means either: Butterfly has no faith in Bitcoins OR they
>> cannot purchase their supplies with Bitcoins.
>> It just further proves why Bitcoin is only worth something to someone who
>> can change bitcoins into an actual physical currency.
>> Butterfly Labs wants ONLY USD. Whether or not a third party can do the
>> exchange for you does not change that they see no inherent value in
>> accepting bitcoins directly.
>> On Fri, Sep 6, 2013 at 9:46 AM, John Aldrich <jmaldrich at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Quoting Mike Robinson <miker at sundialservices.com>:
>>> [mega-snip]
>>>> The "scam" issue arises from, not any technical fault of bitcoin
>>>>  per-se, but rather of human nature:  "money for nothing."  People  can be
>>>> and are persuaded to pay $5,000 USD for, literally, "a  money-making
>>>> machine."  The system is based on "trust," basically in  the complexity of
>>>> a computer algorithm and on "one another" (most of  whom are people you
>>>> have never met and never will), yet it lacks  recourse.  Thus, the
>>>> perception that "this IS a nugget of gold" can  be fostered, and, having
>>>> thus been fostered, it can and therefore  will be abused.  The one
>>>> sure-fire way to turn a bitcoin into a  fungible unit of currency is to
>>>> build and to sell a money-machine  for $5,000.  (I don't see them saying
>>>> that you can pay for 'em in  bitcoin.)
>>>>  Technically, you are correct. You cannot **DIRECTLY** pay for a
>>> Monarch or other Bitcoin mining device in Bitcoins. However they have a
>>> 3rd-party who will exchange your Bitcoins for $USD and allow you to
>>> purchase from Butterfly Labs using your Bitcoins. Likely for a small
>>> exchange fee.
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> --
> Aaron Welch
> Chief Mechanic @ Geek Ventures
> 423-505-9999
> n2nightfall at gmail.com
> "Enabling people to do great things with their own ideas."
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