[Chugalug] Silk Road and Bitcoins

Stephen Kraus ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com
Mon Oct 7 18:04:34 UTC 2013

Don't get me wrong : The PATRIOT Act needs the axe, it shouldve never
passed and is just asking to be abused as it has.
On Oct 7, 2013 1:53 PM, "Rod" <rod-lists at epbfi.com> wrote:

> **
> Being a gemini I see both sides. I hear Steven's complaint to some exent
> agree. However I seen the surveillance of political protests during the
> last admin.
> Then there are stories like this.
> http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2013/10/04/ilija_trojanov_was_this_german_author_barred_from_entering_the_united_states.html
> Last month I read a story about an american critic of policy who was
> blocked fro returning to this country.
> This why I argued wih my consevatives friends about the patriot act. Once
> you go their it becomes the norm.
> On Mon, 07 Oct 2013 11:38:03 -0400, Stephen Kraus <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> No, you are still making false equivalencies. Comparing a flawed legal
> system to a completely RIGGED legal system with kangaroo courts like was on
> the Eastern half of the Iron Curtain complete with torture, summary
> executions, and 'state' witnesses that were basically told what to say by
> prosecution.
> You lift on the Western side of the Iron Curtain, you still have very
> little idea what it was like to live on the Eastern side. I actually know
> people who lived on the Eastern side, trust me they'd like a word with you
> if you think that you can compare anything in the US to the Stasi.
> Do we have a lot of broken legal systems in the US? Yes. Are the
> comparable to the Stasi? HELL NO.
> On Mon, Oct 7, 2013 at 11:12 AM, Dan Lyke <danlyke at flutterby.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 21:10:58 -0400
>> William Roush <william.roush at roushtech.net> wrote:
>> > No, I meant that we're having a public discussion that includes a
>> > lot of ranting about the government and not having our doors kicked in
>> > over it.
>> I was born in Germany, my family was there because my father served in
>> the U.S. Army doing military intelligence work. When  he left the army,
>> for a while he worked for assorted three-letter agencies, or military
>> contractors/intelligence shell companies.
>> While I was growing up, my parents had a lot of friends who'd escaped
>> from behind the Iron Curtain. I grew up with stories of crawling under
>> concertina wire, or loading up the trunk with hopefully impermeable
>> things and driving fast through the checkpoints, hunkered down below
>> the windows while the glass exploded from the machine gun fire.
>> I have no idea if these two things are connected. I suspect at some
>> level that they were. At any rate, I grew up with a good dose of
>> stories from the Iron Curtain.
>> The security state is a continuum. It's not police on every corner,
>> it's the notion that you don't know if there are police on every
>> corner. You don't know who will twist something you say to get you
>> taken in front of a secret court. It's random enforcement, random
>> surveillance, which leads to a self-censorship and a generic fear.
>> Fear, not of doing anything wrong, but of making enemies of the wrong
>> people.
>> My sister just got permission from her parole officer to come visit me
>> for the weekend. I dropped her back at the airport shuttle this morning
>> at five for the flight home. The process by which she pled guilty in
>> order to minimize collateral damage against her husband and various
>> other friends, in which prosecutors and police officers flat-out lied,
>> and have a paper trail of lying, but there's no authority to bring these
>> complaints to, makes Kafka look like an optimist.
>> There are things that the family now does not discuss over electronic
>> communications, that we only talk about in person, and that's even with
>> me making it very clear that I do not want to know any details which
>> aren't public knowledge. But the case clearly consisted of metadata,
>> tapped electronics, fabricated telephone calls, and parallel
>> reconstruction. I don't know how high it went (he was charged as a
>> "Major Drug Offender", pled that way down, so recent revelations about
>> the DEA parallel reconstruction programs could mean the NSA snooping
>> was involved, but he was gone after by local authorities, so it's
>> unlikely it went that high).
>> Do we live in a hundred percent Stasi state? No. But it ain't zero,
>> either, and now we're quibbling where along the line we are. As the old
>> joke goes "we've established that, now we're just haggling over the
>> price".
>> Dan
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