[Chugalug] Ceylon

Mike Harrison cluon at geeklabs.com
Fri Nov 15 12:10:37 UTC 2013

On Thu, 14 Nov 2013, DaWorm wrote:
> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/11/13/162230/red-hat-releases-ceylon-language-100
> I've been coding for over 30 years, and I have no idea what half of that description is saying.
> subtype and parametric polymorphism 
> declaration-site variance
> intersection types
> principal types 
> local type inference 
> flow-dependent typing
> tuple types
> comprehensions
> fully-reified generic types
> I know basic polymorphism, and have heard of tuples, but otherwise, I have no idea what this does for me.  I guess I'm just too
> old.

I have a fond memory of you looking at a real time stream of serial data 
flowing across a serial sniffer screen and saying: "Can you put in in Hex? 
It's easier to read that way."

You are not too old, but you work on a different level of problem, with a 
different set of tools. As you have been isolated in a functional world 
where code actually works, and must work, as opposed to an artistic world 
where code should be "pretty" and "elegant". Therefore you do not grok the 
obfuscated vernacular of fledgling programmers dealing with abstract 
problems of an abstracted obtuse object language like Java and 
JavaScript.. and now: Ceylon

Looking at: http://ceylon-lang.org/documentation/1.0/introduction/

For a guy like me, I hate the abstraction layers upon abstraction layers 
steeped in non-obvious differentiations of common vernacular.

Maybe it's a fix for Healthcare.gov.. or an example of the complex 
thinking that made it such a failure. I don't know.
These quote says it well:

"Ceylon is a new programming language that's deeply influenced by Java, 
designed by people who are unapologetic fans of Java. It's a language 
designed specifically for writing large programs in teams."


"Every language has its strengths and weaknesses. Ceylon is a great 
language if you want to create easily understandable and maintainable code 
with minimum fuss, especially if you like navigating and writing code with 
the help of an IDE."

Which to me say: It's an abstractiona layer/framework on top of Java.

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