[Chugalug] Raspberry Pi on track to sell more units than Apple II computers

Rod rod-lists at epbfi.com
Thu Nov 7 01:51:02 UTC 2013


Us old amiga user consider that fighting words sir! ;)

On Wed, 06 Nov 2013 19:27:00 -0500, Stephen Kraus <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>  
wrote:

>
> X86 or x86-64 is PC. Therefore Surface Pro is a PC. Android Tablet or  
> iPad? Not PC.
> PC must be IBM compatible.
> On Nov 6, 2013 7:11 PM, "Chad Smith" <chad78 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> There is no monthly fee for OnLive.
>>
>> There is an *option* to pay something like $10 a month to get hundreds  
>> of games, some older AAA titles, and a LOT of indie games.
>>
>> But the AAA titles that I bought years ago are still playable - by me -  
>> today, for no additional cost.
>>
>> ===
>>
>> We are getting bogged down on OnLive, though.  It was merely a proof of  
>> concept.  The idea of Tablet-as-Thin-Client is basically what I was  
>> pointing out.  
>> You don't have to have broadband, either.  The Nvidia Shield, for  
>> example, can stream from a local Windows PC.  I have apps on my tablet  
>> and my iPod Touch that can let me stream from >>my MacBook - over local  
>> WiFi (or over the internet if I turn that on).  There are free VNC  
>> clients for both iOS and Android.  I understand that means you have to  
>> have a "PC" to stream from, >>but I'm just saying you don't need the  
>> cloud.  You need *either* the cloud, or a local PC - but not both.
>>
>> Yes, Desktops and Servers will *always* be more powerful than tablets.   
>> But that gap is closing, just like it did between the Desktop and the  
>> Laptop.
>>
>> And it doesn't have to close for Tablets to be viable for main-use  
>> systems.  For the vast majority of people, the tablet is almost there,  
>> if it is not already.
>>
>> And with genre-bending products like the Surface Pro, and other Hybrid  
>> laptop/tablets... it's getting harder to say what is a PC and what  
>> isn't.
>>
>>
>>
>> - Chad W. Smith
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Stephen Kraus <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>  
>> wrote:
>>> I did try Onlive, I did like it. Its a neat service, and I could see  
>>> how it appeals to people. But its basically charging you monthly for a  
>>> game you can just purchase and play whenever you >>>want on an actual  
>>> device be it console or PC or etc, but yes you cannot play them on  
>>> your iPad or Android Tablet.
>>>
>>> But its just milking people for money for a small service, sure, maybe  
>>> a service you find appealing, but you are probably going to pay a lot  
>>> more for that game than you would have if you >>>just bought the game.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 6:26 PM, <basic2point0 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> OnLive was actually pretty cool when it first started up. I had an  
>>>> account back then.You paid a monthly subscription fee and had access  
>>>> to any and all games that were available on their service. You could  
>>>> play any game, >>>>anytime, for as long as you liked, but you never  
>>>> actually owned the game. Sort of a Netflix-type thing. Then they  
>>>> dropped the subscription fee >>>>and you paid per-game instead.  
>>>> However, everything happens server-side and it streams the video to  
>>>> you. The upside is that you get high->>>>end graphics even with a  
>>>> low-end video card, as long as your internet connection can handle  
>>>> it. The downside is, you never actually own any >>>>physical files.
>>>>From: Stephen Kraus
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 6, 2013 6:22 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Chattanooga Unix Gnu Android Linux Users Group
>>>>Chad,
>>>>
>>>> The only problem with your argument with 'Hooray for the cloud' is  
>>>> the fact that lets say Onlive shuts-down? What happens to all your  
>>>> >>>>purchases? You lose them.
>>>>
>>>> Whereas at least with Steam, my games are retained locally on my hard  
>>>> drive, I can play them offline without issue (and its a HUGE issue  
>>>> for >>>>someone that deploys overseas like me). I'm sorry, the whole  
>>>> cloud argument when it comes to games and game ownership pisses me  
>>>> off, >>>>because its just a repeat of EA and their shitty online DRM  
>>>> system, which basically holds your game hostage to an internet  
>>>> connect.
>>>>
>>>> The whole reason the PC Gaming community was so PISSED at EA, pissed  
>>>> enough to give them the Golden Poo award twice, was the fact >>>>that  
>>>> Origin basically screwed you if you didn't have a dedicated nearby  
>>>> broadband connection.
>>>>
>>>> Praise the cloud all you want, but all you are saying is: "I'm okay  
>>>> with not actually owning the things I purchase, and have the right to  
>>>> lose my >>>>access to them whenever the company loses the financial  
>>>> interest in offering the service to me."
>>>>
>>>> CUDA is GPU based processing, I use it both at home and in school for  
>>>> Physics calculations, CAD simulations, and otherwise. Trust me, the  
>>>> >>>>CAD software you get on Android or iOS are a joke compared to  
>>>> actual full CAD systems that allow me to conduct simulation of  
>>>> thermal, >>>>mechanical, and electrical stressors and others  
>>>> calculations that your tablet is just not going to be able to handle  
>>>> very well.
>>>> The other thing is: You are basically screwing the more indie  
>>>> developers, Steam encourages much more wider development than Apple  
>>>> >>>>allows or even Android on occasion.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 5:59 PM, Chad Smith <chad78 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Here's the point, though, on my tablet, I can play AAA console  
>>>>> quality video game titles, like the Arkham series, Assassin's Creed,  
>>>>> Splinter >>>>>Cell, Metro, Homefront, LA Noire, Darksiders, etc. --   
>>>>> Not mobile versions, but the PC version - through OnLive.  Steam,  
>>>>> Sony, EA, whoever >>>>>- could offer something like that if they  
>>>>> wanted to.
>>>>>
>>>>> CAD software exists for iOS and Android.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea what CUDA is - and I'm at least semi-Geeky - so I  
>>>>> doubt the majority of PC users care about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can use Microsoft Office on my tablet - not just office-like apps  
>>>>> - but full-fledged Microsoft Office, through CloudOn, and OnLive.
>>>>>
>>>>> These games, these apps, etc. - they exist on a server somewhere,  
>>>>> not on a PC, and I can use them through my tablet.  Not in theory -  
>>>>> but I >>>>>can do that right now, today.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once stuff like that catches on...  There won't be anything to keep  
>>>>> the PC alive for the mainstream consumer.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can plug in my tablet to my HDTV, and use a Bluetooth keyboard and  
>>>>> mouse, or game controller remote, and have a "traditional" user  
>>>>> >>>>>experience.
>>>>>
>>>>> - Chad W. Smith
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:44 PM, Michael Scholten  
>>>>> <dmscholten at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Would if I could, but I can't so I shant... :p
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ya, anywho... I think I shall go back to lerking in my corner....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Michael
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Tim Youngblood  
>>>>>> <timyoungblood at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Actually you could say it is just steam, and not truly Steam. :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 2:08 PM, Stephen Kraus  
>>>>>>> <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Its not steam. Just a chat client and store front.
>>>>>>>> On Nov 6, 2013 12:26 PM, "Chad Smith" <chad78 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> http://store.steampowered.com/mobile
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.valvesoftware.android.steam.community
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://play.google.com/store/search?q=CAD&c=apps
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Chad W. Smith
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 11:14 AM, Stephen Kraus  
>>>>>>>>> <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Whe I can install standard Windows apps like Steam, CAD, or my  
>>>>>>>>>> Mathematics apps that utilize CUDA on a tablet, the PC will  
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>disappear.
>>>>>>>>>> On Nov 6, 2013 12:11 PM, "Chad Smith" <chad78 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I have family members that got tablets in the last year or so  
>>>>>>>>>>> and almost never touch their laptops anymore.  Between their  
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>tablet and their smartphone, they have no need for  
>>>>>>>>>>> the PC.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For people who are only into casual use of their computers -  
>>>>>>>>>>> media consumption, casual games, social networking, etc. - the  
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>PC is already dead.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The reason tablets and smartphones are able to be so useful is  
>>>>>>>>>>> because of the cloud.  For a lot of the apps - the bulk of the  
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>work is done somewhere else - the media is stored  
>>>>>>>>>>> online and streamed to the device (Pandora, YouTube, Netflix)  
>>>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>>>example.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think the next big thing for mobile devices will be more a  
>>>>>>>>>>> VNC type model - something like OnLive ( onlive.com ) or  
>>>>>>>>>>> CloudOn >>>>>>>>>>>( cloudon.com )...  Yes, OnLive failed at  
>>>>>>>>>>> first, and may not ever really recover - but that wasn't  
>>>>>>>>>>> because the model was bad, it >>>>>>>>>>>was because of  
>>>>>>>>>>> mismanagement.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But the idea of having your mobile device basically serve as a  
>>>>>>>>>>> thin client to a much more powerful computer - I think that's  
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>going to be one of the things that makes the  
>>>>>>>>>>> traditional PC obsolete.  If I can carry a $50 device in my  
>>>>>>>>>>> pocket, and pay... idk... >>>>>>>>>>>$50 a year? ... to have  
>>>>>>>>>>> access to a portion of a supercomputer... and the interface  
>>>>>>>>>>> works with my hardware....  Why wouldn't I >>>>>>>>>>>do that?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, there are security issues - but for the vast majority of  
>>>>>>>>>>> users... If the broadband is there, why not use it?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> - Chad W. Smith
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 10:19 AM, Dave Brockman  
>>>>>>>>>>> <dave at brockmans.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/6/2013 10:52 AM, Tim Youngblood wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is the PC dead? It is on life support.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2013/11/5/mobile-is-eating-the-world-autumn-2013-edition
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> know anyone buying phones or tablets to replace computers?  In
>>>>>>>>>>>> my experience, all we are seeing are these things: New shiny  
>>>>>>>>>>>> gadgets
>>>>>>>>>>>> are selling.  Powerful enough PCs of a 4-5 year old vintage  
>>>>>>>>>>>> aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>> being replaced as quickly as in prior years, no new OS to  
>>>>>>>>>>>> drive bigger
>>>>>>>>>>>> and better hardware specs.  Anyone have differing experience?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> dtb
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---Michael
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