[Chugalug] More on Bitcoin:

Chad Smith chad78 at gmail.com
Thu Aug 22 20:25:55 UTC 2013


<.<

Dafrak?

Why would "tomorrow we all want guns?"  Being Libertarian isn't the same as
being an anarchist.  How the heck would a truly free market change the
world into a post apocalyptic hellscape in 4 days?  That's far dumber than
spending real world money on real world machines to produce fake online
money.


*- Chad W. Smith*


On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Stephen Kraus <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>wrote:

> "He's broadly right in that anything is worth the largest amount that
> someone will pay for it, sorta. But that's tautological to the point of
> being meaningless. During a market bubble shares in monkeyscrotum.comwere "worth" a thousand dollars each, because people were buying and
> selling them for a thousand dollars, but at the same time they were worth
> nothing at all because Monkeyscrotum.com was one guy at a rented desk with
> a stupid idea that had no chance of actually becoming a viable business. It
> had perceived value and thus trading value but no backing."
>
> "The thing is, in all of those examples, there is *mutual demand*, i.e.,
> you can only trade 10 pelts for 20 bushels if the bushels-owner needs
> pelts. That's the reason money (USD) is useful—there is a near-infinite
> demand for it. It's also why BTC is useless—absolutely nobody has any
> demand for it outside from an insignificantly tiny fringe group.
>
> Also, I like how those examples devolve in exactly the same way that
> society would devolve if we all became libertarians. Today we want cars,
> tomorrow we'll want guns, the next day we'll be offloading our worthless
> gold for sheep, and by day 4 we're all hunter-gatherers desperate for food."
>
> From two of my economics friends. More coming.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Chad Smith <chad78 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Um, we are the 4th largest country in the world, physically (land mass),
>> and 3rd in population.
>>
>> Hardly qualifies as "small" by any definition.
>>
>> *- Chad W. Smith*
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Lynn Dixon <boodaddy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Chad, indeed it is:
>>>
>>> US population: 300 Million
>>> China Population: 1.344 billion
>>> World Population: 7 billion
>>> We only contain about 4% of the worlds population.  We are incredibly
>>> tiny.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Chad Smith <chad78 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Our country is not small.
>>>>
>>>> Carry on.
>>>>
>>>> *- Chad W. Smith*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Lynn Dixon <boodaddy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Again Stephen you are thinking on an extraordinary small plane.  I
>>>>> certainly can take gold to many parts of the world (including in the US)
>>>>> and buy products with it. Once you think outside our small country, the
>>>>> world does things in many different ways.
>>>>> The worth of anything is established by the parties in the
>>>>> transaction.  For example:
>>>>> 1. Is my wifes BMW worth trading even for a newer model accord?  Will
>>>>> the seller agree to an even trade?
>>>>> 2. Is my antique rifle worth trading to my neighbor for 2 of his
>>>>> pistols?
>>>>> 3. Is my 1 ounce of gold worth buying 100 sheep for my farm?
>>>>> 4. Is the 10 pelts I hunted worth trading for 20 bushels of corn from
>>>>> the farmer whom is needing pelts to clothe his family?
>>>>>
>>>>> Notice there was never any need for the USD in those examples?  So,
>>>>> the value of anything is determinded by is scarcity and demand.  If I have
>>>>> good you want, and you have goods I want, the value is the equlibirum at
>>>>> which we are both happy with the trade.  If it was just you and I, that
>>>>> value maybe 1:1.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example: You have 100 bushels of corn.  I have 100 pelts.  I need
>>>>> corn for my family and you need pelts for the winter.  We could do a 1:1
>>>>> trade, and both have 50 pelts and 50 bushels, and be happy.  Now, here
>>>>> comes Randy. He has pelts to trade as well, and offers you 2 pelts for 1
>>>>> bushel.  The value of your corn has just increased to 2 pelts because Randy
>>>>> lives further north where there is less food. I have to pay you at least 2
>>>>> pelts to get you to even consider.  Thus the value is controlled by the
>>>>> supply and demand (scarcity of supply).
>>>>>
>>>>> The same applies to Bitcoins, and it does with USD, or EUR, or Yen or
>>>>> pelts, or corn, or anything.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:34 PM, Stephen Kraus <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I KNOW it has nothing to do with gold. I've said this three times in
>>>>>> this exchange.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Randy pointed out that the price of one bitcoin was $102 or 15 ounces
>>>>>> of gold. I pointed out he was correct, while being sarcastic. I was being
>>>>>> sarcastic for a reason because Randy basically pointed out exactly what I
>>>>>> meant: Without the USD or Gold (In its USD equivalent i.e. the amount of
>>>>>> gold you can buy with amount of USD) you are basically establishing worth.
>>>>>> Its the only way to establish the worth of a Bitcoin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nobody is going to take gold and give you a product, you still must
>>>>>> trade in cash.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynn, even those at the top of a pyramid scheme swear their system
>>>>>> works.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Lynn Dixon <boodaddy at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stephen,
>>>>>>> I sincerely hope you do not think the CPI backs the US Dollar.  The
>>>>>>> CPI is a lagging indicator of the rate of inflation. It is a measure of the
>>>>>>> change in price of a set basket of goods. It has nothing to do with the
>>>>>>> value of the USD, moreover it simply echoes the current value of the USD in
>>>>>>> relation to this set basket of goods.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here, educate yourself: http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpifaq.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The value of the dollar is quite simply controlled by monetary
>>>>>>> policy of the Federal Reserve, which is ran by small group of men.  If I
>>>>>>> remember my econmics lessons from college correctly, there are three things
>>>>>>> that determinse the value of the dollar.  Our National debt has a huge
>>>>>>> impact on the demand for this currency and conversely its value.
>>>>>>> 1. Treasury Notes -- The tresuray controls the supply of these notes
>>>>>>> and investors will auction for them. Sometimes for more than face value
>>>>>>> (demand is high) sometimes for lower than face (Demand is low). Those
>>>>>>> investors then re-sell those notes in a secondary market
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. Foreign Reserves --  When other countries import and export, they
>>>>>>> sometimes end up with an excess or shortage of USD which also affects the
>>>>>>> demand for it.  When the value starts to decline, these foreign countries
>>>>>>> will dump their reserves (because who wants to hold worthless notes?). ANd
>>>>>>> just like any market, this causes people to buy and sell.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3. Exchange rates with other currrencies (since not everyone wants
>>>>>>> the USD).  How the USD measures up to the value of other currencies.  Alot
>>>>>>> of times, the GDP of the countries are analyzed and sometimes the
>>>>>>> government stability is taken into consideration to detemine the actual
>>>>>>> value of one currency to another.  The coutnries central bank interest
>>>>>>> rates, debt levels (to both domestic and foreign bodies) GDP, and other
>>>>>>> factors are what set the value.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A retailer or supplier would set the value of his products based
>>>>>>> upon the demand for his products and the costs to make those products (time
>>>>>>> value of money also included). I would also quip that I did indeed buy a
>>>>>>> portion my servers, rackspace and hardware to mine my BTC with BTC.
>>>>>>> However, I will admit, that when I pay my power I have to use my BTC to buy
>>>>>>> US dollars since my electic company only accepts USD. I can't even use
>>>>>>> Chad's paypal example, since they refuse to accept Paypal or even AMEX.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To Randy's point, and to argue against yours, I have no idea why you
>>>>>>> had to assume One would take BTC, convert to USD, and then buy gold.  That
>>>>>>> is plain stupid.  1 BTC is worth about .08 ounces of gold, and there are
>>>>>>> vendors online that will trade their gold for your BTC. You dont have to go
>>>>>>> through the crazy process of converting to USD, unless you simply like
>>>>>>> converting currency for the hell of it. I really wish you would realize
>>>>>>> there is more to this world than the USD.  Also to Randy's point, the
>>>>>>> Dollar hasn't been backed by gold for a long time now.  See my points above
>>>>>>> to learn how the value of the dollar is truly set (spoiler alert: It has
>>>>>>> absolutely zero to do with gold anymore).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Stephen Kraus <
>>>>>>> ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nothing backs the dollar, except the consumer price index.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But nothing backs bitcoins either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Guess what Lynn? Ask the retailer you purchase from what the end
>>>>>>>> pont of their bitcoins you give them are? Also, ask them how they set their
>>>>>>>> values for bitcoin purchases are set?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm assuming the company didnt buy their servers, rackspace, in are
>>>>>>>> paying their power bill in bitcoins
>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 2:36 PM, "Lynn Dixon" <boodaddy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stephen,
>>>>>>>>> I have already told you what my bitcoins are worth.  I have bought
>>>>>>>>> and sold several prodcuts and services using my Bitcoin, and none of them
>>>>>>>>> invovled the USD.  Just recently  I bought 100G of Copy.com storage for .15
>>>>>>>>> BTC.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am also thinking about buying a BlockEruptor for around 1 BTC,
>>>>>>>>> just for poops and snickers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tell me, what "backs" the US Dollar?   I would imagine the essence
>>>>>>>>> of your reply will be the same things that "backs" my BTC....the utility of
>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:31 PM, Stephen Kraus <
>>>>>>>>> ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, Lynn I think its safe to say youbare severely overthinking
>>>>>>>>>> bitcoins.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tell me right now: outside of the processing cycles, invested
>>>>>>>>>> piwer bill, and an algorithm, what backs your bitcoin?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What is one bitcoin worth? A gpu cycle? A power bill? Gold?
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 2:28 PM, "Lynn Dixon" <boodaddy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen,
>>>>>>>>>>> again, I think you and Chad fail to understand how Bitcoins
>>>>>>>>>>> actually work.  The value (like anything in trade) is set by the parties
>>>>>>>>>>> involved in the transactions.  If you ONLY think in USD then you are only
>>>>>>>>>>> thinking very simple.  This is a global economy, I do business in more than
>>>>>>>>>>> just the US.  The value of ANY currency is set by supply/demand.  With USD
>>>>>>>>>>> the supply is artificially manipulated by the Fed, which in my opinion is
>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely horrid. The Supply of Bitcoin is controlled by the peer-to-peer
>>>>>>>>>>> network.  No one individual or entity can change the supply, therefore the
>>>>>>>>>>> value backing the currency is the sheer demand for it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I honestly have no idea how to continue this debate if we only
>>>>>>>>>>> focus on the simple minded-ness of assuming everything is done in US
>>>>>>>>>>> Dollars only.  The world doesnt revolve around the dollar.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Stephen Kraus <
>>>>>>>>>>> ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> That is without even mentioning the cognitive dissonace of
>>>>>>>>>>>> saying this:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'The dollar has no value because there is nothing backing it
>>>>>>>>>>>> beyond the word of the government. So trade in bitcoins....which also have
>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing backing it beyond our personal guarentees'
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Its the same thing. Meet the new boss, a clone of theold boss
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 2:18 PM, "Stephen Kraus" <
>>>>>>>>>>>> ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good thing everyone has mining equipment. Oh wait, investment
>>>>>>>>>>>>> costs!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for buying them....do I even have to explain the cognitive
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dissonance?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'The dollar is worthless we should replace it....but you can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> freely purchase bitcoins with it, thereby implying that the dollar we say
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has no value HAS value, because we are willing to accept it in trade'
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 2:15 PM, "Lynn Dixon" <boodaddy at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stephen,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Did you even read the article?  No where did it mention
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything about USD or exchange rates.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are only two ways to get BTC.  1. Mine them 2. Buy them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since most folks dont want to mine, they will buy BTC.  The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> website just listed the most recent exchange rate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heres another site for exchange rates:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.bitcoinwatch.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Stephen Kraus <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Randy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On the top of the very site you just linked to. Guess what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those exchange rates establish? And the only reason payment processors
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might be interested in bitcoins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 2:06 PM, "Randy Yates" <lpcustom at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-debit-card-ibtcard-will-offer-lower-processing-fees-for-merchants/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's coming :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Chad Smith <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chad78 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *sigh* no one ever pays me in Gum!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *- Chad W. Smith*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Chad Smith <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chad78 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You could buy lunch with Pesos if you're Pesos were in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bank and you had a debit card that automatically converted for you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (like I paid for software in Euros yesterday through PayPal without ever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> owning a Euro in my life).  The same cannot be said for BitCoins - or POGs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - or Beanie Babies - or Baseball cards - or Star Wars action figures - or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yugioh cards - or Pokemon - or Level 80 WoW characters...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of those things have some value to some people - and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they will gladly trade with you for them - but they are not actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currency.  You can't take your comic book collection to the bank and ask
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to give you the equivalence in Pounds Sterling.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *- Chad W. Smith*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Lynn Dixon <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boodaddy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is an excellent point! Peso are a "world recognized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currency", but yet, I can't buy my lunch with Pesos.  Well I probably could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here in Dalton (local yocals will get that joke), but in Benton, probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Chris Mowery <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cmowery at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you take pesos to a gas station, do they take those?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, August 22, 2013, Stephen Kraus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynn.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Doesn't matter. Its still a fiat currency and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-negotiable at any major retailer that cannot convert it to cash.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its like you went to the arcade and cashed in for some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tokens and expect everyone to accept them because of the value the arcade
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> places on the token
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 1:32 PM, "Stephen Kraus" <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Go to a gas station. Right now. Pay for gas and a soda
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with bitcoins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don't take out your credit card. Don't use cash. Use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitcoins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why can't you? Because they don't understand its value?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I could say I have sea shells. I believe they have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some value to me, but people don't understand their value, so I can't use
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to pay for products immediately. But maybe I can trade someone else
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who values sea shells in trade for cash. Suddenly my sea shells have worth,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> despite the apparent lack of actual value as a wide currency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But that does not mean I can magically declare the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> major currency accepted globally as dead becauwe my sea shells hava
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> negotiable value among a select group
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 1:26 PM, "Tyler Mittan" <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flashbatmanquestion at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Randy and Lynn are right on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The more important part of this is that we ought to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have competing currencies to keep whomever the issuers are honest. No one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wants bad money. This criticism of no one taking Bitcoins is totally off
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> base. First, not everyone knows about bitcoins or how it works. Secondly,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the dollar is propped up for two reasons.. People have to use dollars
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the government forces banks to accept and because
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people think the government's handling of the money supply us trustworthy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because most people don't understand the political motive to devalue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currency
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 1:19 PM, "Stephen Kraus" <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lynn, while you may MAKE money off bitcoins, the value
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the traded bitcoins and the inherint value you get from them is.....in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dollars.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> While some (very few) retailers may accept bitcoin,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even their expectation is to either gain more bitcoins which they can then
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> launder into dollars or exchange them as well for another service, but even
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THAT service expects the value of the bitcoins they pay to transfer to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dollars somehow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Until you can go to a local grocer or gas station and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly pay with bitcoins, its going to remain a neat, yet niche idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 1:15 PM, "Lynn Dixon" <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> boodaddy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chad,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I disagree.  Bitcoins are just like anything, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> value of it is determined by the demand/supply for it.  The supply is very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fixed by the network, and cannot be manipulated.  Therefore the value is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly linked to the demand of the currency.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The exception with Bitcoin is that people are actually
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> using as a medium of exchange for goods, services, and even currency
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exchange.  I use it for all 3 of these.  I don't think people used POGs as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a medium of exchange.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Chad Smith <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chad78 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's like POGs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remember POGs?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BitCoins are like POGs.  Really, in and of themselves,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that have absolutely no value.  But, for a while in the 90s, some people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got RICH off of POGs.  Why?  Because they were able to convince people they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needed to have them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> People bought into it - and some of *those *people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also got rich - because they collected and traded and sold them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eventually, it all came crashing down, because it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very hard to keep convincing people they need to spend actually real-world
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money on little cardboard discs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BitCoin is POGs for the Twenty-Teens Tech Geek.  It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> won't last.  But there will be people who make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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