[Chugalug] More on Bitcoin:

Stephen Kraus ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com
Thu Aug 22 18:27:09 UTC 2013


Its funny that, Aaron a good comparison.

Because if I sell something on Ebay, I set a price in USD.

And if paypal doesn't give my bank my USD, I get cross
On Aug 22, 2013 2:25 PM, "Aaron welch" <n2nightfall at gmail.com> wrote:

> Also keep in mind that for all intents and purposes of Stephen's argument,
> Paypal is also a new form of currency as it can be converted to any other
> currency by the system.  The money in your Paypal account is just 1's and
> 0's and not like the money in your bank account.  It is represented in
> value by my local currency, but can be shown in any number of values for
> other currencies.
>
> -AW
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:07 PM, Lynn Dixon <boodaddy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Chad,
>> I am not sure how this relates?  You bought a product using an exchange
>> service.  You exchanged your USD for EUR.  I can do that all day long with
>> my BTC.
>>
>> www.mtgox.com
>>
>> www.coinbase.com
>>
>> www.campbx.com
>>
>> Those are just a few.  There are even Bitcoin ATM's being produced.  What
>> would you have done if that vendor did not accept Paypal?  You would have
>> had to go and buy EUR somewhere else.
>>
>> Whe  I buy using BTC, I don';t have to have an antique debit card.  I can
>> use my phone, scan a barcode, use NFC, or enter their address.  This
>> argument seems invalid as you are trying to discredit bitcoin because you
>> cant swipe an old debit card?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:01 PM, Chad Smith <chad78 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You could buy lunch with Pesos if you're Pesos were in the bank and you
>>> had a debit card that automatically converted for you (like I paid for
>>> software in Euros yesterday through PayPal without ever owning a Euro in my
>>> life).  The same cannot be said for BitCoins - or POGs - or Beanie Babies -
>>> or Baseball cards - or Star Wars action figures - or Yugioh cards - or
>>> Pokemon - or Level 80 WoW characters...
>>>
>>> All of those things have some value to some people - and they will
>>> gladly trade with you for them - but they are not actual currency.  You
>>> can't take your comic book collection to the bank and ask them to give you
>>> the equivalence in Pounds Sterling.
>>>
>>> *- Chad W. Smith*
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Lynn Dixon <boodaddy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Chris,
>>>> This is an excellent point! Peso are a "world recognized currency", but
>>>> yet, I can't buy my lunch with Pesos.  Well I probably could here in Dalton
>>>> (local yocals will get that joke), but in Benton, probably not.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Chris Mowery <cmowery at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you take pesos to a gas station, do they take those?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thursday, August 22, 2013, Stephen Kraus wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doesn't matter. Its still a fiat currency and non-negotiable at any
>>>>>> major retailer that cannot convert it to cash.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Its like you went to the arcade and cashed in for some tokens and
>>>>>> expect everyone to accept them because of the value the arcade places on
>>>>>> the token
>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 1:32 PM, "Stephen Kraus" <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Go to a gas station. Right now. Pay for gas and a soda with bitcoins.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't take out your credit card. Don't use cash. Use bitcoins.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why can't you? Because they don't understand its value?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I could say I have sea shells. I believe they have some value to me,
>>>>>> but people don't understand their value, so I can't use them to pay for
>>>>>> products immediately. But maybe I can trade someone else who values sea
>>>>>> shells in trade for cash. Suddenly my sea shells have worth, despite the
>>>>>> apparent lack of actual value as a wide currency.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But that does not mean I can magically declare the major currency
>>>>>> accepted globally as dead becauwe my sea shells hava negotiable value among
>>>>>> a select group
>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 1:26 PM, "Tyler Mittan" <
>>>>>> flashbatmanquestion at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Randy and Lynn are right on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The more important part of this is that we ought to have competing
>>>>>> currencies to keep whomever the issuers are honest. No one wants bad money.
>>>>>> This criticism of no one taking Bitcoins is totally off base. First, not
>>>>>> everyone knows about bitcoins or how it works. Secondly, the dollar is
>>>>>> propped up for two reasons.. People have to use dollars because that's what
>>>>>> the government forces banks to accept and because people think the
>>>>>> government's handling of the money supply us trustworthy because most
>>>>>> people don't understand the political motive to devalue currency
>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 1:19 PM, "Stephen Kraus" <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lynn, while you may MAKE money off bitcoins, the value of the traded
>>>>>> bitcoins and the inherint value you get from them is.....in dollars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> While some (very few) retailers may accept bitcoin, even their
>>>>>> expectation is to either gain more bitcoins which they can then launder
>>>>>> into dollars or exchange them as well for another service, but even THAT
>>>>>> service expects the value of the bitcoins they pay to transfer to dollars
>>>>>> somehow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Until you can go to a local grocer or gas station and directly pay
>>>>>> with bitcoins, its going to remain a neat, yet niche idea.
>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 1:15 PM, "Lynn Dixon" <boodaddy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chad,
>>>>>> I disagree.  Bitcoins are just like anything, the value of it is
>>>>>> determined by the demand/supply for it.  The supply is very fixed by the
>>>>>> network, and cannot be manipulated.  Therefore the value is directly linked
>>>>>> to the demand of the currency.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The exception with Bitcoin is that people are actually using as a
>>>>>> medium of exchange for goods, services, and even currency exchange.  I use
>>>>>> it for all 3 of these.  I don't think people used POGs as a medium of
>>>>>> exchange.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Chad Smith <chad78 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's like POGs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Remember POGs?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BitCoins are like POGs.  Really, in and of themselves, that have
>>>>>> absolutely no value.  But, for a while in the 90s, some people got RICH off
>>>>>> of POGs.  Why?  Because they were able to convince people they needed to
>>>>>> have them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> People bought into it - and some of *those *people also got rich -
>>>>>> because they collected and traded and sold them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eventually, it all came crashing down, because it is very hard to
>>>>>> keep convincing people they need to spend actually real-world money on
>>>>>> little cardboard discs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BitCoin is POGs for the Twenty-Teens Tech Geek.  It won't last.  But
>>>>>> there will be people who make
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>
>
> --
> Aaron Welch
> Chief Mechanic @ Geek Ventures
> 423-505-9999
> n2nightfall at gmail.com
> "Enabling people to do great things with their own ideas."
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