[Chugalug] More on Bitcoin:

Randy Yates lpcustom at gmail.com
Thu Aug 22 18:24:54 UTC 2013


I didn't say the dollar had no value. $102 will buy you a bitcoin right now.


On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:22 PM, Stephen Kraus <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>wrote:

> That is without even mentioning the cognitive dissonace of saying this:
>
> 'The dollar has no value because there is nothing backing it beyond the
> word of the government. So trade in bitcoins....which also have nothing
> backing it beyond our personal guarentees'
>
> Its the same thing. Meet the new boss, a clone of theold boss
> On Aug 22, 2013 2:18 PM, "Stephen Kraus" <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Good thing everyone has mining equipment. Oh wait, investment costs!
>>
>> As for buying them....do I even have to explain the cognitive dissonance?
>>
>> 'The dollar is worthless we should replace it....but you can freely
>> purchase bitcoins with it, thereby implying that the dollar we say has no
>> value HAS value, because we are willing to accept it in trade'
>> On Aug 22, 2013 2:15 PM, "Lynn Dixon" <boodaddy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Stephen,
>>> Did you even read the article?  No where did it mention anything about
>>> USD or exchange rates.
>>>
>>> There are only two ways to get BTC.  1. Mine them 2. Buy them.
>>> Since most folks dont want to mine, they will buy BTC.  The website just
>>> listed the most recent exchange rate.
>>>
>>> Heres another site for exchange rates:
>>> www.bitcoinwatch.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Stephen Kraus <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Randy.
>>>>
>>>> On the top of the very site you just linked to. Guess what those
>>>> exchange rates establish? And the only reason payment processors might be
>>>> interested in bitcoins.
>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 2:06 PM, "Randy Yates" <lpcustom at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-debit-card-ibtcard-will-offer-lower-processing-fees-for-merchants/
>>>>>
>>>>> It's coming :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 2:03 PM, Chad Smith <chad78 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> *sigh* no one ever pays me in Gum!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *- Chad W. Smith*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:01 PM, Chad Smith <chad78 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You could buy lunch with Pesos if you're Pesos were in the bank and
>>>>>>> you had a debit card that automatically converted for you (like I paid for
>>>>>>> software in Euros yesterday through PayPal without ever owning a Euro in my
>>>>>>> life).  The same cannot be said for BitCoins - or POGs - or Beanie Babies -
>>>>>>> or Baseball cards - or Star Wars action figures - or Yugioh cards - or
>>>>>>> Pokemon - or Level 80 WoW characters...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All of those things have some value to some people - and they will
>>>>>>> gladly trade with you for them - but they are not actual currency.  You
>>>>>>> can't take your comic book collection to the bank and ask them to give you
>>>>>>> the equivalence in Pounds Sterling.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *- Chad W. Smith*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 12:55 PM, Lynn Dixon <boodaddy at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris,
>>>>>>>> This is an excellent point! Peso are a "world recognized currency",
>>>>>>>> but yet, I can't buy my lunch with Pesos.  Well I probably could here in
>>>>>>>> Dalton (local yocals will get that joke), but in Benton, probably not.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Chris Mowery <cmowery at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you take pesos to a gas station, do they take those?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, August 22, 2013, Stephen Kraus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lynn.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Doesn't matter. Its still a fiat currency and non-negotiable at
>>>>>>>>>> any major retailer that cannot convert it to cash.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Its like you went to the arcade and cashed in for some tokens and
>>>>>>>>>> expect everyone to accept them because of the value the arcade places on
>>>>>>>>>> the token
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 1:32 PM, "Stephen Kraus" <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Go to a gas station. Right now. Pay for gas and a soda with
>>>>>>>>>> bitcoins.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Don't take out your credit card. Don't use cash. Use bitcoins.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why can't you? Because they don't understand its value?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I could say I have sea shells. I believe they have some value to
>>>>>>>>>> me, but people don't understand their value, so I can't use them to pay for
>>>>>>>>>> products immediately. But maybe I can trade someone else who values sea
>>>>>>>>>> shells in trade for cash. Suddenly my sea shells have worth, despite the
>>>>>>>>>> apparent lack of actual value as a wide currency.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But that does not mean I can magically declare the major currency
>>>>>>>>>> accepted globally as dead becauwe my sea shells hava negotiable value among
>>>>>>>>>> a select group
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 1:26 PM, "Tyler Mittan" <
>>>>>>>>>> flashbatmanquestion at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Randy and Lynn are right on.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The more important part of this is that we ought to have
>>>>>>>>>> competing currencies to keep whomever the issuers are honest. No one wants
>>>>>>>>>> bad money. This criticism of no one taking Bitcoins is totally off base.
>>>>>>>>>> First, not everyone knows about bitcoins or how it works. Secondly, the
>>>>>>>>>> dollar is propped up for two reasons.. People have to use dollars because
>>>>>>>>>> that's what the government forces banks to accept and because people think
>>>>>>>>>> the government's handling of the money supply us trustworthy because most
>>>>>>>>>> people don't understand the political motive to devalue currency
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 1:19 PM, "Stephen Kraus" <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Lynn, while you may MAKE money off bitcoins, the value of the
>>>>>>>>>> traded bitcoins and the inherint value you get from them is.....in dollars.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> While some (very few) retailers may accept bitcoin, even their
>>>>>>>>>> expectation is to either gain more bitcoins which they can then launder
>>>>>>>>>> into dollars or exchange them as well for another service, but even THAT
>>>>>>>>>> service expects the value of the bitcoins they pay to transfer to dollars
>>>>>>>>>> somehow.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Until you can go to a local grocer or gas station and directly
>>>>>>>>>> pay with bitcoins, its going to remain a neat, yet niche idea.
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 1:15 PM, "Lynn Dixon" <boodaddy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chad,
>>>>>>>>>> I disagree.  Bitcoins are just like anything, the value of it is
>>>>>>>>>> determined by the demand/supply for it.  The supply is very fixed by the
>>>>>>>>>> network, and cannot be manipulated.  Therefore the value is directly linked
>>>>>>>>>> to the demand of the currency.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The exception with Bitcoin is that people are actually using as a
>>>>>>>>>> medium of exchange for goods, services, and even currency exchange.  I use
>>>>>>>>>> it for all 3 of these.  I don't think people used POGs as a medium of
>>>>>>>>>> exchange.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Chad Smith <chad78 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's like POGs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Remember POGs?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BitCoins are like POGs.  Really, in and of themselves, that have
>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no value.  But, for a while in the 90s, some people got RICH off
>>>>>>>>>> of POGs.  Why?  Because they were able to convince people they needed to
>>>>>>>>>> have them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> People bought into it - and some of *those *people also got rich
>>>>>>>>>> - because they collected and traded and sold them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Eventually, it all came crashing down, because it is very hard to
>>>>>>>>>> keep convincing people they need to spend actually real-world money on
>>>>>>>>>> little cardboard discs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BitCoin is POGs for the Twenty-Teens Tech Geek.  It won't last.
>>>>>>>>>>  But there will be people who make
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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