[Chugalug] More on Bitcoin:

Lynn Dixon boodaddy at gmail.com
Thu Aug 22 17:26:52 UTC 2013


Stephen,
Actually no.  The inherit value I get from them is the ability to trade
them for goods, services, or even other currencies.  The dollar is not the
only currency of value in this world.  I have bought Euros, Yen, CAD, and
others. The Euro has been much stronger than the dollar for a while now
(Nearly 10 years now?) even during the financial crisis in Europe. I am not
sure why you keep making the assumption that everyone wants dollars.  I
have gotten alot of utility (the true value of ANY currency) from my
Bitcoins by trading/using them natively without any laundering into other
currencies.  I do this daily.


On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Stephen Kraus <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>wrote:

> Lynn, while you may MAKE money off bitcoins, the value of the traded
> bitcoins and the inherint value you get from them is.....in dollars.
>
> While some (very few) retailers may accept bitcoin, even their expectation
> is to either gain more bitcoins which they can then launder into dollars or
> exchange them as well for another service, but even THAT service expects
> the value of the bitcoins they pay to transfer to dollars somehow.
>
> Until you can go to a local grocer or gas station and directly pay with
> bitcoins, its going to remain a neat, yet niche idea.
> On Aug 22, 2013 1:15 PM, "Lynn Dixon" <boodaddy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Chad,
>> I disagree.  Bitcoins are just like anything, the value of it is
>> determined by the demand/supply for it.  The supply is very fixed by the
>> network, and cannot be manipulated.  Therefore the value is directly linked
>> to the demand of the currency.
>>
>> The exception with Bitcoin is that people are actually using as a medium
>> of exchange for goods, services, and even currency exchange.  I use it for
>> all 3 of these.  I don't think people used POGs as a medium of exchange.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Chad Smith <chad78 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It's like POGs.
>>>
>>> Remember POGs?
>>>
>>> BitCoins are like POGs.  Really, in and of themselves, that have
>>> absolutely no value.  But, for a while in the 90s, some people got RICH off
>>> of POGs.  Why?  Because they were able to convince people they needed to
>>> have them.
>>>
>>> People bought into it - and some of *those *people also got rich -
>>> because they collected and traded and sold them.
>>>
>>> Eventually, it all came crashing down, because it is very hard to keep
>>> convincing people they need to spend actually real-world money on little
>>> cardboard discs.
>>>
>>> BitCoin is POGs for the Twenty-Teens Tech Geek.  It won't last.  But
>>> there will be people who make money off of it.  To them I say "Enjoy it
>>> while it lasts."
>>>
>>> *- Chad W. Smith*
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Aaron welch <n2nightfall at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Me too, me too.
>>>>
>>>> -AW
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Lynn Dixon <boodaddy at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Aaron,
>>>>> This is something I have been doing for the last couple of years.
>>>>>  Bitcoin mining, and trading has been very profitable for me. I can't say
>>>>> for certain that it will always be this profitable, but I am damn sure
>>>>> going to ride this curve for as long as its making me money.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Aaron welch <n2nightfall at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed.  Lets stop arguing about its merits and downfalls and focus
>>>>>> on the important parts...  Make the money now before they figure out how to
>>>>>> devalue it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -AW
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Bret McHone <dbmchone at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmFXEcI_AA4   This about sums it up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -B
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013, at 11:27 AM, Stephen Kraus wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All you are doing by proposing replacing a regulated form of
>>>>>>> currency with a limited by design crypto currency is introducing the same
>>>>>>> problems we ditched by leaving gold backed currency.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is deeply ironic that bitcoiners decry regulation without fully
>>>>>>> understanding that is exactly what large, monopolistic buisnesses want, or
>>>>>>> a magical free market thatwe technically had in the early 1900s and only
>>>>>>> led to massive worker and market abuses.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is with even deeper irony that you decry government manipulation
>>>>>>> of markets, when the exact opposite led to massive and disastrous market
>>>>>>> fluctuations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is with the deepest irony that you decry manipulation of markets
>>>>>>> without realizing that studying and learning to manipulate markets is the
>>>>>>> ENTIRE point of economics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Like I said, when pigs fly.
>>>>>>>  On Aug 22, 2013 11:12 AM, "Matt Keys" <mk6032 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.cnbc.com/id/100923551
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 08/22/2013 10:57 AM, Stephen Kraus wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If it happens, I'll be waiting for the flying pigs.
>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013 10:00 AM, "Matt Keys" <mk6032 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bitcoin is already an accepted form of payment. Some employers
>>>>>>>>> like the Internet Archive already give that option to their employees. In
>>>>>>>>> other words I see bitcoin as a stabilizing factor in a crisis like that. In
>>>>>>>>> order to keep food, water, shelter, etc. you'd need to pay those employees
>>>>>>>>> that keep those utilities going... so you're gonna pay them in sandwiches,
>>>>>>>>> water, and bullets -- or bitcoin? How would you collect payments if you're
>>>>>>>>> an employer?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What happened in Cyprus is a fact. Another fact that took place
>>>>>>>>> around 80 years ago... "executive order 6102". Governments historically try
>>>>>>>>> to seize or ban when they're loosing control or wanting control of
>>>>>>>>> something -- land, water, shelter, guns/ammo... even money.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 08/22/2013 08:59 AM, Stephen Haywood wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If the Euro, or Dollar go belly up, the most usable currency for
>>>>>>>>>> a few weeks or months will be water, food, shelter, and protection, not
>>>>>>>>>> bitcoins. Now, after things stabilize, bitcoins might rise up to be the new
>>>>>>>>>> Euro/Dollar but it is very unlikely.
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Stephen Haywood
>>>>>>>>>> Owner, ASG Consulting
>>>>>>>>>> CISSP, GSEC, OSCP
>>>>>>>>>> 423.305.3700
>>>>>>>>>> stephen at averagesecurityguy.info
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 22, 2013, at 6:05 AM, Matt Keys <mk6032 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  Yeah, have fun...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Have fun trying to keep track of who's behind the IP in each
>>>>>>>>>>> transaction... have fun trying to "regulate" a peer-to-peer network with no
>>>>>>>>>>> central authority. Downloading copyrighted material using bittorrent has
>>>>>>>>>>> been deemed illegal and has been "regulated" by various authorities... does
>>>>>>>>>>> it still happen? Do the authorities know exactly how often this happens,
>>>>>>>>>>> from where, to/from whom?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The usual political fear mongering won't work. I think what's
>>>>>>>>>>> happening is that governments are starting to wrap their heads around this
>>>>>>>>>>> gigantic problem -- "how the hell are we going to continue business as
>>>>>>>>>>> usual if this really takes off worldwide?"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This guy quoted on the cnbc article has the right idea, but he's
>>>>>>>>>>> thinking about it in the wrong direction : "If the euro does go belly up
>>>>>>>>>>> the German authorities could potentially still collect tax if everyone
>>>>>>>>>>> started using the bitcoin - that's a good example of German
>>>>>>>>>>> forward-thinking!" -- http://www.cnbc.com/id/100971898 . If the
>>>>>>>>>>> Euro goes "belly up" nobody is going to give a shit about German taxes.
>>>>>>>>>>> They're going to dump their Euro money, as fast as possible, to bitcoin and
>>>>>>>>>>> another forms of money. Think Cyprus crisis v2.0 on an exponential scale.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 08/21/2013 04:21 PM, Stephen Kraus wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, guess what it means.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You have to report any profit you make from Bitcoin on your
>>>>>>>>>>>> taxes. Have fun!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Tyler Mittan <
>>>>>>>>>>>> flashbatmanquestion at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Looks like Bitcoin is being recognized as "private money" by
>>>>>>>>>>>> Germany:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.cnbc.com/id/100971898
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For those that don't take Austrian economics seriously, notice
>>>>>>>>>>>> the name drop of F.A. Hayek.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Aaron Welch
>>>>>> Chief Mechanic @ Geek Ventures
>>>>>> 423-505-9999
>>>>>> n2nightfall at gmail.com
>>>>>> "Enabling people to do great things with their own ideas."
>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Aaron Welch
>>>> Chief Mechanic @ Geek Ventures
>>>> 423-505-9999
>>>> n2nightfall at gmail.com
>>>> "Enabling people to do great things with their own ideas."
>>>>
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