[Chugalug] Bitcoin = scam

Stephen Kraus ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com
Wed Aug 7 17:08:21 UTC 2013


Tyler,

I'll give you this: their theories are sound.

But in practice, nearly every theory they've proposed doesn't hold up.

And I'll say it again, Misis is taken seriously by only one group:
Libertarians. Everyone else, including major economists outside of the
classroom, won't even give Misis the time of day.
On Aug 7, 2013 11:01 AM, "Tyler Mittan" <flashbatmanquestion at gmail.com>
wrote:

> A) Carl Menger, a well known Austrian economist, is the one who came out
> with the notion that value is free from the labor theory of value. So much
> for that.
>
> B) Hayek and Mises predicted the fall of the communism because there is no
> price system. Read the socialist calculation debate. Mises and Hayek won
> that debate.
>
> C) Mises is a skeptic, read an actual book by him. If you don't like him
> you can read Hayek or Kirzner, “a couple of articles" just won't do it. I
> read Krugman and Sitglitz, I think you can handle reading Mises and Hayek.
>
> D) No libertarian says Somalia is a free market paradise even if studies
> show that the people are more prosperous without government. Read David
> Friedman the son of Milton Friedman.
>
> E) First, thank you for accidentally implying that no Austrian theory of
> economics caused this most recent crash (although many did predict it).
> Secondly, there is no political incentive to try things out like the
> Austrians want. If you want to know why just read about any public choice
> economist like Gordon Tullock or Nobel Prize winning economist James
> Buchanan (he graduates from MTSU fun fact).
>
> F) I don't even own any bitcoins. If I could have when it first started,
> but like the Mises article admits, it is definitely a bubble right now. And
> as the Selgin article admits it's not widely accepted enough to be
> considered money. I never said it was, but it absolutely could be if we
> ended the government's monopoly over currency.
> On Aug 7, 2013 11:20 AM, "Stephen Kraus" <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Stalin shattered the Idea of Marx, that is going a long way to say that
>> it was shattered by a paper.
>>
>> Mises is a libertarian think-tank, its no different from others of its
>> groups like The Heartland Institute.
>>
>> I have read a couple of Mises articles, they read like propaganda,
>> approach their subjects with zero skepticism and often no control, assuming
>> that long before their study that the result will fit the expectation.
>> It is the epitome of a biased source. End of story. Not to mention I
>> honestly cannot take a group that says Somalia is some sort of free
>> enterprise paradise seriously.
>>
>> Next question:would If Austrian economics works, why does nobody
>> reputable use it?
>>
>> And finally: How many of you purchased your mining rigs with bitcoins?
>> On Aug 7, 2013 10:13 AM, "Tyler Mittan" <flashbatmanquestion at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Rational Wiki is built on the Hayekian idea that knowledge and
>>> information is dispersed so it's pretty much just a joke (although they
>>> don't mean to be). Austrian economists are not conservatives. Unless you
>>> mean 2 Nobel prize winning economists are jokes. Not to mention the
>>> Austrian economist that shattered the idea of Marx, Ricardo, and yes, even
>>> Adam Smith that things are only as valuable as what it costs to make them.
>>>
>>> Why not try reading Mises and especially Hayek before quoting ironic,
>>> I'll informed websites?
>>>
>>> You also haven't really addressed my points. You attacked one of my
>>> sources, but never my actual information nor addressed the non-Austrian
>>> George Selgin.
>>> On Aug 7, 2013 11:07 AM, "Stephen Kraus" <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yeah...no its not.
>>>>
>>>> Rationalwiki was founded to fight Conservapedia, while some of their
>>>> articles are written in a humorous tone, they are dead serious and usually
>>>> cited
>>>>
>>>> I mean, have you even watched the Daily Show or Colbert? Sure, its
>>>> comedy, but the points raised are legitimate none the less.
>>>>
>>>> Mises is a joke in the actual economic joke, on the same level as the
>>>> Creationism Museum and the Family Research Council.
>>>> On Aug 7, 2013 10:01 AM, "Tyler Mittan" <flashbatmanquestion at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What's also stupid about the Rational Wiki is that they advocate pure
>>>>> empiricism. Anything they write should be taken as satire with small
>>>>> insights of actual information. It's virtually the Daily Show of the
>>>>> internet.
>>>>> On Aug 7, 2013 10:36 AM, "Stephen Kraus" <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises_Institute
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All I have to say about anything Mises and Lew Rockwell related.
>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2013 9:32 AM, "Tyler Mittan" <flashbatmanquestion at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://mises.org/daily/6401/
>>>>>>> http://www.freebanking.org/2013/04/22/bitcoin/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here are two specifically about bitcoin. The law of supply and
>>>>>>> demand dictates the worth of just about anything we consider valuable.
>>>>>>> Money is no different. It doesn't matter if it is bitcoin or the dollar.
>>>>>>> That's why there is such thing as inflation because it causes an influx in
>>>>>>> money being spent which then creates higher prices because more money being
>>>>>>> spent creates the incentive to raise prices. This also explains why we
>>>>>>> might not be experiencing the inflation many economists expected us to
>>>>>>> because while the new credit expansion is definitely there, banks are
>>>>>>> holding onto it because of uncertainty. So I was not directly saying that
>>>>>>> bitcoin's worth is dictated by the law of supply and demand, I am saying
>>>>>>> that all money is. Bitcoin included. I agree that many people don't accept
>>>>>>> it, but I think they would in the absence of a monopoly on currency via the
>>>>>>> government.
>>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2013 10:21 AM, "Stephen Kraus" <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Post your links.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, before quoting 'law of supply and demand' which is one of the
>>>>>>>> most often misquoted economic terms, please provide me with a list of banks
>>>>>>>> that accept bitcoins as a trade medium, and major retailers that accept
>>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, let me be clear in my intentions with this: it is not to call
>>>>>>>> anyone out or plaster anyone as a fool, but merely to play devils advocate
>>>>>>>> and provide skepticism
>>>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2013 9:16 AM, "Tyler Mittan" <
>>>>>>>> flashbatmanquestion at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don't treat it like it's something that's away from the law of
>>>>>>>>> supply and demand. Nothing has its value “set" unless there is some kind of
>>>>>>>>> price control. The value is set by the law of supply and demand.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If there truly is finite amount of bitcoins that are being created
>>>>>>>>> than the worth of a bitcoin will not be able to one day be worthless unless
>>>>>>>>> everybody decides to stop taking bitcoins. Right now it is almost a
>>>>>>>>> currency, but it won't be such as long as the us government decides it
>>>>>>>>> doesn't want a competing currency.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are some good economists that talk about bitcoins and it
>>>>>>>>> might be worth reading what they have to say before knocking it.
>>>>>>>>>
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