[Chugalug] Bitcoin = scam

Aaron Welch n2nightfall at gmail.com
Wed Aug 7 14:21:08 UTC 2013


Convert to Pesos, Yen, Euros...  As I can so today.

-AW

On Aug 7, 2013, at 9:22 AM, Stephen Kraus <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Okay, another scenario:
> 
> Lets say that tomorrow, the USD us declared to have no value.
> 
> Explain how bitcoins will then have a value, and how you intend to set its worth
> 
> On Aug 7, 2013 8:14 AM, "Stephen Kraus" <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Aaron, the US dollar holds buying power because banks, companies, and the US government says it does. Thats a lot of weight, not to mention, no matter how bad it gets foreign traders still recognize the USD as having buying power.
>> 
>> On Aug 7, 2013 8:12 AM, "Stephen Kraus" <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Lets put the whole 'limited amount' im perspective:
>>> 
>>> Lets say you are a panhandler, you find a cache of gold.
>>> 
>>> Awesome! So you mine as fast as you can, but eventually a large and fairly well to do company finds out.
>>> 
>>> You can mine as fast as you can, but that large company has equipment, manpower, and time on their side.
>>> 
>>> On Aug 7, 2013 7:57 AM, "Aaron Welch" <n2nightfall at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I would love to have a discussion about this at a CHUGALUG event sometime.
>>>> 
>>>> -AW
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 7, 2013, at 8:50 AM, Randy Yates <lpcustom at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Except that there is a limited number of bitcoins, and the limit on dollars keeps going up.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 8:32 AM, Stephen Kraus <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Also, I'd point out that you are effectively doing with Bitcoins what many Libertarians claim the US Federal Reserve is doing: pulling money out of thin air.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2013 7:21 AM, "Stephen Kraus" <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Its not anger. Its confusion.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Also, its a fiat currency.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Aug 7, 2013 6:01 AM, "James Nylen" <jnylen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Randy, I agree... I think much of the negativity towards Bitcoin is unwarranted.  I understand unwillingness to spend money on something that has less real value than a tulip, but that shouldn't translate into anger when it turns out to actually have made some people a lot of money.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Source:  http://buttcoin.org/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 10:35 PM, Randy Yates <lpcustom at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> You guys were saying the same thing when it was $9 per bitcoin. If you'd taken a $100 risk, you could have brought in around $2400 last month. I'm not saying that I'd start using bitcoin as my currency of choice at the moment. I'm just saying that there have been plenty of negativity toward it on here and I only wish I'd swept some of that aside and bought about 100 bitcoins last year when it was low. I could have paid a chunk of my house off this year.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 9:50 PM, James Nylen <jnylen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Stephen,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I think Bitcoin shows some truly interesting qualities.  It is hard to counterfeit, transparent, and easy to spend.  Digital currencies based on cryptography show great promise in terms of libertarian free-market ideals.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I must disclose that I made a small investment in Bitcoin a couple years ago, so my conclusions are subject to the usual biases.  Thus far, though, I'm glad to have been part of the experiment.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Stephen Kraus <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I've tried explaining this before, but unfortunately people are really bought into the idea, and its none of my business what they do with their time and processing power.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Its pretty much a pyramid scam, insufficient as a dependable currency and fluctuates too quickly.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Buy, people can do as they please, but its along the same lines as claiming vaccines cause autism.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 6, 2013 12:01 PM, "Mike Robinson" <miker at sundialservices.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll call it what it -is-:  it's a scam directed at nerds.  "... and two to take him."
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The con consists, first, of posing a computationally-difficult yet not-insurmountable crypto problem.  It can be solved; it just takes a long time.  So, nerds are instantly absorbed in the "challenge for a challenge's own sake," namely, to solve the problem.  They can be counted on not to examine the whole proposal too-seriously, because nerds generally consider themselves to be trustworthy and thus are too-trusting.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Someone (but we don't actually know who ...) said" that the number of bitcoins would be limited .. which is a necessary premise if you're being conned into thinking that you're mining for gold.  "Tokens can only be used once."  And most importantly, "the verification software cannot be tricked into giving a false-positive."
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subtly, now, the nerds are suckered into giving-up REAL CURRENCY ... more than $100 USD at this point ... which they don't mind doing because, of course, they're sure that Nothing Comes Down (-and- that there is something holding it Up in the first place).
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> It's pointless, though, to argue these points with people who have caught "digital Gold Fever."  The only thing that can be done in that case is to sell them shovels and picks, which is precisely what Leland Stanford, among many others, did.  Well, I have nothing to sell you, but I'll rest my case at this point and disregard the inevitable rebuttal.  Presumably, you're not going to lose any money that you can't afford to lose.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Aug 5, 2013, at 5:50 PM, chugalug-request at chugalug.org wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Call it what you will, but those who got into Bitcoin early have done
>>>>>>>>>>>>> extremely well.  Also, there is a pretty clear exponential trend relative
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the dollar, which implies its value is still increasing.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
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