[Chugalug] A comment on the Bitcoin .. fraud

kitepilot at kitepilot.com kitepilot at kitepilot.com
Mon Apr 15 16:31:31 UTC 2013


 From economics to aviation...
Pilots *KNOW* that the weather forecast is nothing else than a horoscope 
with numbers.
<duck>
Does that equalize the 'Science of Economy' with the 'Science of Astrology'?
Let the firestorm begin!   ;-)
</duck>
ET 


Randy Yates writes: 

> There's very few sciences that I don't trust, economics is one of them.
> Call it backward thinking if you want, but I find economics experts about
> as credible as big foot experts. I wouldn't even trust a super computer
> mining big data to predict the economy. There's too many factors that come
> into play to change it. There's the obvious things like natural disasters
> and the outbreak of war, but there's also events like a damn economics
> expert making a TV appearance or writing an article about something. All
> those things can alter the natural flow of the economy. So I don't see it
> as a very accurate science. A physicists can't get on TV and talk about
> gravity and cause gravity to change its behavior. 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Stephen Kraus <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>wrote: 
> 
>> Paul Krugman actually predicted the housing crisis. A few economists did
>> actually. 
>>
>> I am in no way saying the banking industry is perfect, after all, they
>> purposely wanted the removal of the Glass-Steagall Act so that they could
>> make trades and investments they knew were bad just to make a quick buck.
>> Its why regulation and deregulation is a double edged sword, some
>> regulations are heavy handed sure, but some were also put in place to
>> protect people and prevent overzealous companies from causing intentional
>> harm for the sake of profit. 
>>
>> Randy, c'mon now. So I guess based on that logic, any and all experts
>> should be dismissed as apparently they have not a clue? That is very
>> backwards thinking. Everyone makes mistakes and everyone is wrong at some
>> point in time, that is not the same as saying 'People studying systems like
>> an economy as a science are wrong because they know nothing despite their
>> credentials' 
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Aaron welch <n2nightfall at gmail.com>wrote: 
>>
>>> Josh, the difficulty would increase to make finding blocks that much
>>> harder and the value that much higher.  Imagine it like the first stock
>>> certificate for GE or Coke and how much those would be worth today after
>>> all the stock splits. 
>>>
>>> -AW 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Joshua Estes <f1gm3nt at gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.google.com/search?q=inventor%20committed%20to%20mental%20institution 
>>>>
>>>> Even the smartest people are wrong some of the time. 
>>>>
>>>> 1: When you start out learning something say economics, you read
>>>> everything you can on the subject. Eventually you can recall things based
>>>> on previous work or come up with your own theories. At some point you
>>>> believe in your idea so strongly that no one else is right. You die, you
>>>> leave your legacy of books and papers behind.
>>>> Goto 1; 
>>>>
>>>> This process repeats itself over and over again. One of my biggest
>>>> questions I have with bitcoins, which I haven't bothered to ask yet, is if
>>>> each block contains transactions that are to be tracked. What happens when
>>>> the last block is found? Does the system fail at that point? Bitcoins
>>>> interest me because it makes me ask questions, other people's questions
>>>> about bitcoins interest me as well. Nothing is set yet and this whole
>>>> "experiment" could fail. 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Joshua Estes 
>>>>
>>>> @JoshuaEstes 
>>>>
>>>> "If you live periods of your life in misery, when you remember back to
>>>> those times, all you'll remember is the misery. The misery robs you of
>>>> great memories you could otherwise be making." 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Stephen Kraus <ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com>wrote: 
>>>>
>>>>> Randy, thank you, yes, deflation. 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Randy Yates <lpcustom at gmail.com>wrote: 
>>>>>
>>>>>> Isn't that rapid deflation? 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Stephen Kraus <
>>>>>> ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And Lynn, I think you are probably one of the smartest people here,
>>>>>>> so I find it hard to criticize your argument because they are usually
>>>>>>> fairly well thought out. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My other big thing with Bitcoins is the rapid inflation. I mean look
>>>>>>> at that guy who paid for a pizza in bitcoins a couple years ago, the amount
>>>>>>> he paid for the pizza would now be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars! 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even inflation from the early 1900s to now isn't nearly that bad. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Stephen Kraus <
>>>>>>> ub3ratl4sf00 at gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I criticize it because numerous economics professors criticize it. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look, I'm all for you doing Bitcoin, its your time and your
>>>>>>>> processing power, not mine. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But lets be perfectly honest: When a bunch of people who spend their
>>>>>>>> entire lives studying economic systems inside and out say its a waste and
>>>>>>>> it will lead nowhere, I'm of the mind to take their opinions into account.
>>>>>>>> Especially when a Nobel Laureate is saying so. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right now, I've watched the Bitcoin trends from Mt. Gox and it is
>>>>>>>> bouncy as hell, repeatedly bubbles then pops. It doesn't matter how often
>>>>>>>> it spikes if it cannot stay consistent at a certain value for long or
>>>>>>>> trends rapidly up and down. 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just read this thread, ignore some of the goofiness and listen to
>>>>>>>> some of the people in it. I find their opinions seem to reflect a lot of
>>>>>>>> people I know in the economics fields:
>>>>>>>> http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3543334&pagenumber=70#lastpost 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Lynn Dixon <boodaddy at gmail.com>wrote: 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What is surprising to me is the vast number of people that will
>>>>>>>>> jump in and criticize the currency after doing no research on it.  They
>>>>>>>>> will read a few articles on the web, or maybe even some horrid bitcointalk
>>>>>>>>> forum posts and simply make an assumption that is usually incorrect. 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The currency works, and works well. I have been mining for a while
>>>>>>>>> now, nearly two years, and I have personally made some impressive returns.
>>>>>>>>>  I have also used the currency quite a bit. I have used it as a vehicle of
>>>>>>>>> exchange when dealing with foreign currency, I have used it as a vehicle of
>>>>>>>>> exchange for goods and services, and I even accept bitcoin as payment for
>>>>>>>>> my web hosting company. 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Mike Robinson <
>>>>>>>>> miker at sundialservices.com> wrote: 
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> These are just my thoughts – but I see a bully pulpit here, and
>>>>>>>>>> I'll be brief. 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you wanted to fleece a bunch of nerds, how would you do it?
>>>>>>>>>>  Well, first of all, you'd promise them, one way or another, "easy money."
>>>>>>>>>>  In fact, knowing that many of them spend hours each day in
>>>>>>>>>> gam-environments where guns never run out of ammo, you'd promise them "make
>>>>>>>>>> your own money."  An altogether synthetic currency system.  "World Money,
>>>>>>>>>> Release 2.0." 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You'd slow-roll the whole thing.  Just toss the ball out onto the
>>>>>>>>>> field almost unmentioned.  Aside from the obvious need for plausible denial
>>>>>>>>>> when the sheet hits the fan, you're playing hard to get, in the form of a
>>>>>>>>>> cryptographic-based puzzle that can only be brute-forced, but that can be
>>>>>>>>>> shown to be solvable.  Add a few more promises – that the supply of this
>>>>>>>>>> "money" will always be limited (never mind how) – and wait for the
>>>>>>>>>> Powerball Effect to take hold of its own accord.  A very large number of
>>>>>>>>>> paper cards are thrown away near my driveway, because I live on a country
>>>>>>>>>> road about a quarter-mile from a convenience store.  I pick them up by the
>>>>>>>>>> hundreds. 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Meanwhile, start selling supplies .. for real money.  And books,
>>>>>>>>>> of course.  Every now and then, grab a quiet instant-success headline, say
>>>>>>>>>> by selling a Ferrari (a Ford will NOT do ...) for this "new money."  Then
>>>>>>>>>> wait. 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's a Crowd Psychology 101 play, people, and I just want to say
>>>>>>>>>> .. there are some things in this ol' world that are truly ancient, and
>>>>>>>>>> finding new and creative ways to rip off your fellow-man by leveraging his
>>>>>>>>>> own gullibility is one of them.  I don't want my Chattanooga virtual
>>>>>>>>>> friends to be among those many that will eventually be hurt. 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> #undef soapbox .. Thank you. 
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> – Mike Robinson
>>>>>>>>>> (615) 268-3829
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Google reads my email! 
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>> 
>>>
>>> --
>>> Aaron Welch
>>> Chief Mechanic @ Geek Ventures
>>> 423-505-9999
>>> n2nightfall at gmail.com
>>> "Enabling people to do great things with their own ideas." 
>>>
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>>
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>  
> 
> -- 
> Google reads my email!


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